The ad caster role is very weak overall at the moment. MoM helped a bit, but there are still massive weaknesses in the class.

Lets look at the list of AD casters (sorry if I miss some):
Ezreal
Riven
Lee Sin
Pantheon
Talon
Garen
Renekton
Urgot

Now half of these are strong and half a rather weak, and are very situational picks.

Of the half that are strong you can seperate them into two categories.
High base stats champions
Champions that are built differently to AD casters

Riven and Lee Sin have high base stats, strong ratios and strong base damage. This is why they can be built pure ad with little defence and still be effective. Although quite a few people build them as bruisers they are viable with an ad caster build.

Ezreal and Urgot can be build differently to AD caster standard, which is why they are still viable. Ezreal is built as a carry, picking up a sheen ofc (much like corki), and can be built AP. Urgot is a good ranged bruiser and a carry.

Those 4 are the effective half of the AD caster pool, however on the other side we have garen, renekton, pantheon and talon.

The problem with these 4 is they really need to built as AD caster.

With garen and renekton they get tanky enough with base stats and a single defensive item, which is how it should be. However they don't deal enough damage late game, whilst these two are very strong early game they become weaker and weaker late game. And a small amount of armor shuts them down.

Pantheon and Talon are very situational picks. Pantheon is effective against few other laners, (he is very good against gp top though). Talon is good against a few AP casters, however that can end up screwing your comp over with too much physical damage. Both of these champions fall off late game with just a bit of armor, unless they get ridiculously far ahead.


The class of champions really just needs new items for late game, which would solve the problems of the weaker sides (i.e. their terribad late games) and a small buff to base stats for talon and pantheon.

These changes would make some sit picks/weaker champs stronger, and open up more builds for the strong champs currently in the class. There really needs to be a better build up from brutaliser. Maybe it could combine with bilgewater cutless to give an item with AD, armor pen, lifesteal and some spellvamp.

TL;DR Ad casters need more items to open up their builds, and yes its this thread again.

I don't really get the point of your thread. There is counter to everything there will always be thats what the game is all about

I don't think that items is the problem, sure we dont have the awsome Spellvamp, CDR, AD, armpen item. but then that's like making an item for an AD carry that has AD, lifesteal, Crit, and atk speed.

The problem i see with Renekton, Garen and Pantheon is when people build tanky early on (when they are most effective) instead of capitalizing on their awsome early game by building damage items and snowballing.
Imo if All AD casters had an awsome lategame, some would be just OP.
And personally i think if every champion was good early, good mid, and good late, that would just be plain boring.

Ad casters are weak? They just bruisers, you play them wrong and then whine they are up.

There is also quite a small amount of items for the real AD casters.

The only thing wrong with a few of the champions you have listed is how much their late game damage falls off.

i.e. Ezreal, Pantheon, Garen, Renekton and Urgot.

If their scalings were fixed so that they could be more useful late game, there wouldn't be any problems.. But I see this as purely a scaling issue, not an AD caster issue.

Riven, Lee Sin and Talon are totally fine the way they are.

Riven, lee sin, talon, panth, renek and garen is all bruta+tankiness and atmas. In general.

Urgot is tanky carry, get randuins
And ezreal is a normal carry, don't build tf and he's a fine carry with great late game.

p.s. just buy atmas + random high health items on all those champions and geegee

dafuq did i just read?